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  • » Greatest armies in history by PatrickDup
  •    Debate on greatest fighting units/armies of all time. From Legion to Macedonian Phalanx.

    There are many views on which historical military unit or army has been the greatest and most effective during its own time and how much of an effect it has had on the world during its hayday. One view is the that armies like those of the Macedonian or Eporite Greeks with Macedonian Greek style 5-6m long pike/sarissa Phalanx and the composition of armies that it was a part of, made of 15% regular 2.5 metre long spear armed hoplites in the style of the Spartans and Athenians, 5% archers like the famed creten archers with composite bows, 5% light armed troops of say slingers and peltasts, 15% cavalry like Greek Thesalian cavalry and Macedonian or Eporite Companion cavalry, and 60% Macedonian style hoplites, were the most effective armies of their day as an Eporite Greek army of this composition  even beat the roman legions at one point in history at the beginning of the rise of Rome at the battles of Heraclea and Asculum and tied at the Battle of Beneventum (Good event) due to having a smaller army and the fact that the Romans occupied a strong defensive fort position. Others would disagree and say that the Roman legions and the legionary cohorts and their centurions were the best of their day as they beat the Macedonians and their Macedonian style Phalanx at the Battle of Cynocephalae (Dogs Heads) and several other battles during the Macedonian-Roman Wars. Still others would claim the fact that the late Byzantine Greek Empire, a successor state to the Roman Empire, lasting for 903 years if the beginning is considered to be during the reign of Justinian in around 550 AD, the longest lasting single political and military entity in history, that its army was the greatest military force in history as it held off invaders from the Franks to the late Hunnic tribes to the Bulgars and Slavs to the Sasanian Persians and the Arab muslims and, for a while, the "Barbaric" Turkic tribal federations such as the Seljuks and the Ottomans. These armies at times were likely to have composed 40% heavy infantry pikemen with 5-6m long pikes, 30% heavy cataphractos cavalry who were well armored both rider and horse and armed with a long lance and a long sword and composite bow and arrows and 30% well trained archers with composite bows and arrows. Make your argue-meants clear and supply statistics and facts and maybe we will come to an agreement on the best of the best.

    Edit

#81 2011-06-01 17:49:52

          United States    america
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Re: Greatest armies in history




usa also took on england during the revolutionary war and at the time england was the most powerful country at the time o and also our army took out mexico england in the 1800's with our army

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#82 2011-06-01 15:59:03

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@americaneag And also i can think of many armies in history that introduced weapons that were unbeatable or pioneering for the battlefields of their day. Not just the British and French. And what weapons would you be talking about anyway. The French built ship that was the first ever iron warship but an early form that the british built on and improved to eventually make another pioneering weapon the Dreadnaught battle ship the first ever steal hulled battle ship. Or the self cocking revolver by the British. The hydro-pneumatic mechanism for modern cannons that the french first introduced. The ship of the line battleship of the 1700's and first half of the 1800's by the british i believe. And ill give you examples of armies that have made unbeatable weapons when i make a list of best armies since that is what you were talking about me making before.

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#83 2011-06-01 15:34:53

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@americaneag I disagree that america was crap before 1940. During the civil war the union and confederates had more men under arms altogether than alot of other major powers of the time. I think the number might have been about 500,000 men at arms with more than that number killed and many more wounded and crippled for life, maybe another several hundred thousand. And they pioneered many new weapons like metal hulled warships and self loading rifles. Also the early gattling gun. They were far from crap. They may not have been the bast at that time but were very good at warfare and fighting.

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#84 2011-06-01 15:15:28

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@Doo Pee The american army is very disciplined. Most of them anyway. And especially their special forces units such as the Rangers (Shock troops for dangerous parts of the enemies lines and for behind enemy lines missions), the navy seals (seaborn special operations specialists), the Green berets, (unconventional warfare specialists), the Reconaisance Marines (Special recon missions and probing of enemy lines and the spotting of enemy formations), and Delta force (counter terrorism specialists, finding special person targets, rescue missions), Airforce commandos (Defence of important airforce assets, airfield defence, protection of airforce VIP's, rescue of downed pilots.). These are all examples of well disciplined elite units and here are some conventional units. There is the 101st airborne division the airborne specialists, there are many armored tank divisions that have excellent tanks and well trained battle tested crews supported by well trained infantry. And many infantry divisions who are experienced from recent wars and well trained. To say that the american army is undisciplined is a comment without grounds.

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#85 2011-06-01 15:03:23

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@americaneag Well i never made a list not yet anyway. At the beginning my first post was just gibing examples of good armies in history. My replies to other peoples posts also did not mention any list but merely gave my thoughts on what other people said. I have said that the eporites and macedonian greeks, the germans of ww2, the germanic warriors of roman times, and the mongolic huns and the mongols were awesome warriors. But i totally agree that the french and british are up there. I never said that they weren't you mistook what i have said but no worries anyway.

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#86 2011-05-31 16:42:40

          France    Doo Pee
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@americaneag The American Army is undisciplined, It is the world power, but the army is not the best.

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#87 2011-05-31 14:59:32

          United States    americaneag
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@america No USA is the best since 1940... Before the american army was crap. There wasn't even a us army before ww1.

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#88 2011-05-31 14:57:26

          United States    americaneag
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Re: Greatest armies in history




Very true. The frencha nd the british are not included in this list. Patrick you fail to acknoledge the fact that THEY, and them only, were the first armies in the whole history of mankind, to come up with a weapon that put them autmatically ahead of ALL armies in the world. For God's sake don't forget european countries ruled the fucking world!!! They (from 1700 to 1900 for example) were the only armies in history to be undefeatable by other armies (non european). No other armies EVER succeded into doing that. Not even the americans or the germans.

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#89 2011-05-27 03:10:09

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@Doo Pee Yes very true except for saying that the persians had skilled warriors like the greeks, if your talking about achamaeid Persians. They were only good compared to other middle easterns of the time. The Parthian Persians and the sasanian persians on the other hand had excellent military units and warriors and were a match for the roman empire and later the Byzantine greek empire.

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#90 2011-05-27 03:05:57

          France    Doo Pee
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Re: Greatest armies in history




The Best? Well, The French nearly always won on the European Continent, so their armies should definantley be up there. I also think the Nazis were Powerful, they may have been evil, but they conquered Europe in months. The Greeks, Romans, and Persians had skilled warriors as Well box

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#91 2011-05-27 03:01:23

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@Jpreisser Well said my friend i agree totally with you that england was great at one point. And yes alexanders empire was truly awesome. He travelled a greater distance than any Roman or any other ancient general ever did.

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#92 2011-05-27 02:57:04

          Norway    Jpreisser
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Re: Greatest armies in history




 

 ENGLAND 1600 hunderds to 1776. than usa is the best since 1776 

 

England should no doubt be in the running for top spot. England established the largest empire ever and did it with a wide variety of tactics. Unlike the Mongols who have the second largest empire, Britain established superiority overseas and was able to maintain an overwhelming logistical advantage. They controlled countries with much larger populations than their own and had conquered territory on almost every continent. They utilized local populations by forming them into militas and/or full-fledged military units and convincing people to fight against their own through carefully crafted indoctrination is, in my opinion, brilliance.

There is really too much to say about the British Empire to put down on this forum. Other European nations accomplished similar things but not on the same scale and not with the same proficiency. Europeans could have colonized the globe if they had wanted to. After the boxer rebellion Europe almost split China into pieces. Anyways, I would also like to recognize Alexander the Great`s masterful Empire wich came about through seamless tactical adjustments and incredible logistical planning.

Last edited by Jpreisser (2011-05-27 04:24:37)

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#93 2011-05-27 02:56:24

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@depresser I dont get how the Iranians had the first army. Do you mean the Persians since they had the first truely large empire. But they did not have the first army. I'd say it was the oldest civilistaion the Sumerians from 10,000-8000BC. They had the first walled cities and fought the Assyrians later on but lost. Also you would be worng to say that the Russian army of ww2 was even that great. It was almost rolled over by the German Wermacht and Waffen SS and the rest of the German military. They lost 6 million regulars 2 million partisans and 20 million civilians and the gremans lost 5 million people during the whole war from everybody. And most of the russian losses were when the germans were still in russia. If it wasn't for the British and mainly the americans sending thousands of tanks, thousands of artillery pieces, millions of guns, and thousands of tonnes of food and clothing to the russians, and tying down a half million German troops in the west then the germans would have used those extra troops to offset their losses and and roll over the Russian/Soviets once and for all when the russians were starving and their cities were in ruins and they couldn't build anything more. But yes i do agree that the Germanic warriors were very good fighters and the Mongolic peoples like the Mongols and the Huns were great warriors. Their style of warfare relying on horse archery and out maneuvering your enemies and attacking them at a distance with composite bow and arrows while keeping them from attacking you then charging in when they're weak was am excellant form of warfare. For a while they were as good or better at warfare then even us europeans until our skills caught up and our technology offset all their advantages.

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#94 2011-05-27 02:03:52

          United States    america
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Re: Greatest armies in history




@depresser what the soviet union you do know that in world war 2 that the at one point russia backed out and england was buy there selves then the japs atacked pearl harbor that what caues usa to join then the russians came back in aqnd usa changed the hole war so if it wasnt for america we would all be talking german right now so dont say the soviets were the best because usa saved the world o and also do u remember how the soviets fell lmao hahahahahahahahahahahaha ya if you have the best military you dont fall because of some towel heades

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#95 2011-05-27 00:50:29

          United States    america
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Re: Greatest armies in history




ENGLAND 1600 hunderds to 1776. than usa is the best since 1776

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#96 2011-05-26 17:09:49

          United Kingdom    depresser
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Re: Greatest armies in history




This is such a broad, vast topic. The best army was probably the Soviet army after Kurst, they had the best tanks, the most experienced troops, the most determined troops and were advancing over land far faster than Britain and America were.
The Huns, Mongols and Goths had huge hoards of fighters, however Iran can be credited with the first ever army.

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#97 2011-05-26 16:03:59

          Spain    valdo
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Re: Greatest armies in history




I already said it before but : the Wehrmacht 1944
us army 1945
napoleon army
Macedonian army (alex the great)
Roman army

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#98 2011-05-26 09:46:36

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Greatest armies in history




There are many views on which historical military unit or army has been the greatest and most effective during its own time and how much of an effect it has had on the world during its hayday. One view is the that armies like those of the Macedonian or Eporite Greeks with Macedonian Greek style 5-6m long pike/sarissa Phalanx and the composition of armies that it was a part of, made of 15% regular 2.5 metre long spear armed hoplites in the style of the Spartans and Athenians, 5% archers like the famed creten archers with composite bows, 5% light armed troops of say slingers and peltasts, 15% cavalry like Greek Thesalian cavalry and Macedonian or Eporite Companion cavalry, and 60% Macedonian style hoplites, were the most effective armies of their day as an Eporite Greek army of this composition  even beat the roman legions at one point in history at the beginning of the rise of Rome at the battles of Heraclea and Asculum and tied at the Battle of Beneventum (Good event) due to having a smaller army and the fact that the Romans occupied a strong defensive fort position. Others would disagree and say that the Roman legions and the legionary cohorts and their centurions were the best of their day as they beat the Macedonians and their Macedonian style Phalanx at the Battle of Cynocephalae (Dogs Heads) and several other battles during the Macedonian-Roman Wars. Still others would claim the fact that the late Byzantine Greek Empire, a successor state to the Roman Empire, lasting for 903 years if the beginning is considered to be during the reign of Justinian in around 550 AD, the longest lasting single political and military entity in history, that its army was the greatest military force in history as it held off invaders from the Franks to the late Hunnic tribes to the Bulgars and Slavs to the Sasanian Persians and the Arab muslims and, for a while, the "Barbaric" Turkic tribal federations such as the Seljuks and the Ottomans. These armies at times were likely to have composed 40% heavy infantry pikemen with 5-6m long pikes, 30% heavy cataphractos cavalry who were well armored both rider and horse and armed with a long lance and a long sword and composite bow and arrows and 30% well trained archers with composite bows and arrows. Make your argue-meants clear and supply statistics and facts and maybe we will come to an agreement on the best of the best.

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