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  • Index
  • » Religion - Room 1
  • » Deism or Theism by SgtPeppers
  •    A question for those of you who believe in a god.

    This question requires some background

    A Deist refers to someone who believes God triggered the beginning of the universe (possibly through the Big bang)and has not interfered in any event since (meaning no prayer, no ritual or anything like that is of any concern to him).

    A theist is someone who believes n a "personal god", who interferes in human affairs, answers prayers, etc.


    So which one are you? Which one makes more sense? Why?

    Edit

#41 2011-11-12 06:32:14

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

How can anyone prove that time did not exist? Any scientist that has a theory wasn't there before the Big Bang so cannot prove anything beyond any reasonable doubht. Where is their proof? I beleive that the Big Bang did happen but where is the proof that time did not exist?

Explain why this quote from a physicist is not true.

time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events.

I have given many exaples of genius's who ahve beleived in God mate and are still inventors and academics. And there are plety of people who agree with evolution and the Big Bang and yet are still religious. And social life is an integral part of being a human so actually like I said, "one mans genius is another mans idiot".

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#42 2011-11-09 14:30:52

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

You assert again that time existed before the big bang, you present no proof and your personal disbelief in that does not impact its validity.

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#43 2011-11-09 02:56:22

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

I have given many exaples of genius's who ahve beleived in God mate and are still inventors and academics. And there are plety of people who agree with evolution and the Big Bang and yet are still religious.

And yes there was still time before the Big Bang. How could there not have been.

time does not refer to any kind of "container" that events and objects "move through", nor to any entity that "flows", but that it is instead part of a fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans sequence and compare events.

And social life is an integral part of being a human so actually like I said, "one mans genius is another mans idiot".

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#44 2011-11-08 16:54:34

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@jesuschrist 

Sorry, this problem is apparently happening with my account, but I have not deleted any messages I post, so I don't know the cause

Can anyone else reading this please send it to jesuschrist so I can be sure he gets it

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#45 2011-11-08 15:51:37

          United States    jesuschrist
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

do you write messages and then delete them? because I have unread messages from you and when I click on it it says "error" but when I check the actual debate I can't see your posts... Did you jus got saved by Jesus Christ and deleted all of your blasphemous

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#46 2011-11-07 22:05:33

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

No offence, but that was to stupid for words.

1. Paralyzed? Hawking has a form of ALS, a disease which gradually removes all motor function, he did absolutely nothing to cause this and 10 seconds on Wikipedia woulds show this

2. Your argument for true existence of time prior to the big bang is that god was thinking and creating? That is not even an argument. Your other points on it were completely inarticulate, can you please clarify them. From what I did understand, you present not one iota of support, do a web search and find an expert who agrees with you, I already have mentioned one on my side.

3. Are you aware that it is not possible to be a genius in one thing and not in another. A genius is a person with an IQ exceeding 163, that is across the board, no subject area distinction.

4. In what way does Einsteins personal life affect anything, he still accomplished more than most social people could ever hope to. Isaac Newton was a virgin to the day he died, we remember his name, social skill are irrelevant when considering merit.

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#47 2011-11-07 09:43:34

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

I think that Stephen Hawking would be better off if he had beleived in an afterlife. He would not be where he is now i that wheel chair because he would have taken his life more seriously and not gotten himself parylised. And just to clarify, time does and has always existed as just because there was no universe it doesn't mean there was no God and no time as time is the progression of everything and all chemical and energy reactions in the universe and is the progression of aything. If there was a God than he was still thinking and living and creating so there was time.

E.G. If a tree falls down in a forest but there is absolutely no animal and no person to hear it crash to the ground was there still sound? YES.

There was also still time before all this. There was a God.

I may not be considered a Genius like Stephen Hawking; at least not in physics and maths and astronomy and science and geometry but I am a genius at History of all kinds, Military History, all things military including military tactics and strategy and warfare, in any case I still have eough sense to know that time is constant and always exists as by definition it cannot not exist.

And by the way, using people as examples of why a certain arguement is right is a little ineffective as one mans genius is another mans idiot.

E.G. Einstein was a very smart man in fact a genius burt he married his second cousin and then got dumped by her and was completely hopeless with woman.

Stephen Hawking is a smart guy but he got himself where he is now and cant do the most basicof things without help.

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#48 2011-11-07 09:25:50

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

Because that is a step back not forward as we would be saying that it just appeared out of no where or at least that is what it sounds like. Gid creating the Universe is more logical when combined with the Big Bang and expansion theory.

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#49 2011-11-06 18:39:13

          Russia    NikoLStak
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Re: Deism or Theism




I see.

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#50 2011-11-06 05:51:05

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@NikoLStak 

No, the time thing was to illustrate the fact we can argue that the universe has always existed. If a god is not confined by physics, then they would have left some trace.

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#51 2011-11-05 18:32:36

          Russia    NikoLStak
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

The one with a thumb up.

Anhd it's the time argument I don't found persuasive. God being a magic dragon or a pur energy sentient thing, why time would be a problem.

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#52 2011-11-05 00:02:02

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@NikoLStak 

Which one is my "last argument"?


As for the video, part of what I wanted to  emphasis is the lack of time before the big bang, which means that the make up of it is functionally something which always existed, thus not needing a creator.

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#53 2011-11-04 17:52:20

          Russia    NikoLStak
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers 

Well. I've seen more persuasive arguments.

I liked your last message.

Last edited by NikoLStak (2011-11-04 17:52:41)

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#54 2011-11-04 00:44:29

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@NikoLStak 

I found a video in which Stephan Hawking explains why a god making the universe is ridicules.

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#55 2011-11-03 22:03:50

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@NikoLStak 

I had a hard time following but it sounded like your thinking was along the same lines as what Epicurus said in his famous riddle

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?

Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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#56 2011-11-03 14:42:47

          Russia    NikoLStak
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Re: Deism or Theism




God triggered the Big Bang and lead the evolution to it's actual form.

I do believe in god but only speculate on what he did. In no way I will let my croyances interfer with my knowledge, but until all the questions have been answered, it's god who did it.

And If God still look at us, why did he let his followers burn so many women and etc? In my book, God is gone.

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#57 2011-11-03 14:00:29

          United States    EvilCoupons
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Re: Deism or Theism




ugh....maaaan....SO MUCH TO READ!!! pissed

And sadly, I haven't got enough time in my class to read all this so I can take part in this argument.
All I'll say for now is that I am this so called word that you label us 'deist' er... whatver, when I'm not tired from lack of sleep and have already done 2 tests to tire me more
so uh....TTYL!!! *bell rings* nxt period....ugh

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#58 2011-11-02 12:44:54

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

It provides no answer, as if we conclude that God created the universe through natural processes, why not skip a step and forget the god.

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#59 2011-11-02 11:51:51

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers I agree it does not provide a definitive answer but it does however provide more of an answer for the combined creation and science concept that christians like me use or beleive in or think is possible. And I am not saying that this God or the God that I as a Christian beleive in is the same asshole murdering maniac that is described in the bible, it is very different for me actually.

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#60 2011-11-01 13:05:22

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

First, the laws of physics, though they would have existed, would  not have been in their current form, so the cause-effect relationship would not exist. Saying god did it IS less logical because it adds information without adding substance, why god, why not pixies, why not the flying spaghetti monster, the god does not add any knowledge, so while I admit it is possible, you must admit that it does not provide a real answer.

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