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  • » Religion - Room 1
  • » Deism or Theism by SgtPeppers
  •    A question for those of you who believe in a god.

    This question requires some background

    A Deist refers to someone who believes God triggered the beginning of the universe (possibly through the Big bang)and has not interfered in any event since (meaning no prayer, no ritual or anything like that is of any concern to him).

    A theist is someone who believes n a "personal god", who interferes in human affairs, answers prayers, etc.


    So which one are you? Which one makes more sense? Why?

    Edit

#81 2011-10-25 13:12:10

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

Sorry if this seems blunt, but that attack on the big bag theory was blatantly false and demonstrably fallacious. We have massive amounts of proof, both mathematical evidence and physical proof (search cosmic background radiation). I do not believe anything without a reasonable amount of proof and a logical entailment.

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#82 2011-10-25 05:11:35

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers Okay you dont beleive in God because you think it is not illogical to not beleive. You beleive in the big bang despite the fact that it is not illogical to not beleive in that. This is even despite the fact that the Big Bang is just a theory, even if it sounds like a good theory, it is still nontheless an unproven theory that may sound good now but may be disproven by our future generations who may think it was as silly for us to have beleived in a "Big Bang" as we thought it was for our ancestors to have thought that the world only had one land mass, Europe up to Scandinavia down south to the bottom of the Sahara in Africa and from Spain all the way to the edge of india in Asia, and that the spherical world had a huge ocean surrounding these continents and that land mass. This is what the Greeks thought by the time of Alexander the Great, and yet we have proved that there was more land to be discovered around this land and in other continents. So I think that since you are so ademant about so many scientific theories and beleive so many, then it would not be illogical to beleive in a God that created the universe. And just for the record I am not denying the big bang theory, but just using it as an example.

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#83 2011-10-25 01:17:11

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@jesuschrist 

If we have free will, but have not been given the knowledge of what is right, the question remains, how are we responsible for breaking the rules. How would it be breaking freewill to give us a more definitive amount of proof, why not an event which breaks the laws of physics, that would be more conclusive than miracles that were written down after encountering a hundred levels of here-say before being recorded.

How could you reasonably hold someone responsible, if say, they had never encountered the bible or its rules.

I end with this quote

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?

Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing?

Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing?

Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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#84 2011-10-24 21:53:43

          United States    jesuschrist
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Re: Deism or Theism




It's simple : God cannot interfere with free will. And in order to send his message he can only do it by sending prophets, like moses, and his son, Jesus. If he told us by mental manipulation or whatever, how to behave, then we would obey blindly. We would be like robots. Just like in irobot, if you saw the movie. The human life would be pointless. And no one knows the meaning of life anyways.

As humans we believe in what we think is right. Lucky are those who understood the right message for they will go to heaven. The others, who live lives of sin, not so sure...

1.

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#85 2011-10-24 21:36:58

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@jesuschrist 

If god is so powerful, why

1.would he not make himself and his rules known, rather than letting people who unknowingly break them go to hell?

2. Would he create humans with the capacity to not believe in him?

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#86 2011-10-24 21:02:35

          United States    jesuschrist
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Re: Deism or Theism




I am Theist. I do believe that God has powers over the univers and more specifically in our world. However I do believe that one of the strongest christian values is that one cannot just pray and wait for the help of a higher power, he has to act and take care of things himself. Then, God will help him. And all along my life I have noticed it was true. I have worked hard during my studies, and was almost going to fail, but I worked hard, and succeded. I knew I had done that by myself, but a couple months later, a tragedy happened. I prayed a lot, but I was powerless. And God helped me. God helps the brave and the hard workers. God helps the poor only if they can't help it. God isn't merciful when it comes to laziness. Most of the time, good people are rewarded. And if it is not the case, I believe that there is a reason to that.
I also believe that God voluntarily doesn't use to much his powers, and therefor doesn't stop things he could, so that we can learn better our lesson.

Jesus Christ is his son and messanger and he too can help us, as well as  all christian saints. But there role is to guide us, not to assist us. As humans we have the power to make a difference.

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#87 2011-10-24 20:24:11

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

I reject the god because no rational reason exists not to. I point this out to all theists, but every person on the planet is Atheist. For example, I take it you reject Zeus, Apollo, Krishna, Allah (although ethnically he is the same as Yahweh, the Judeo-Christian god) Shamut, the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn, Russell's teapot and every one of the gods and characters of myths, so in relation to all those gods, you are an atheist. I and 700 million others have just gone one god further. I know many Atheists (ironic, considering the town I live in has about 50 churches in it, every last one of them agrees wit me, present us with evidence for any god and we will accept that god. Unless that proof is produced, however, any holy book has as much credibility as lord of the rings, except not nearly as well written.

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#88 2011-10-24 06:37:35

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers Interesting. And thanks, good to know that I was on track. Yes I definately beleive that there is life out there apart from us.
But why do you think that the God part is farfetched? How did all this start? There must have been something more powerfull than the big bang that made the big bang or big expansion, and that could logically have been a GOD like being or a GOD.

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#89 2011-10-23 17:18:50

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Deism or Theism




@PatrickDup 

Actually not that far fetched, except of the god part, the idea of many universes is a key aspect of many theories, one, which explains how the big bang could have started, had several universes, next to each other, like slices of bread in a loaf, all of then going through big bang/ big crunch cycles and when one goes big bang, it may cause others to compact, or vice versa, all in an infinite cycle. This also increases the odds of life having developed, as the laws of physics would be regenerated in each universe, ergo the odds of having suitable conditions is much higher.

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#90 2011-10-23 03:48:03

          Australia    PatrickDup
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Re: Deism or Theism




@SgtPeppers I am definately a Deist kind of religious person. Basically I beleive that God made the Big Bang, and watches over us and helps to ascend when we die and must leave our physical body, so he kets our minds continue existing as soon as we are dead, or as soon our bodies cannot sustain our beingany more. We then live in an ascended form with all others that have died already in the past, and we can even continue to evolve in this kind of heaven that is there but is not visual or detectable by any living being, at least not any with our current level of technology, which implies that maybe one day our race will be advanced enough to be able to talk with people who have died and escended in the past. Maybe God even moved on to another part of the universe even further than the big bang would get any time within the next 100 billion years, and started the process all over again. I know this seems a little farfetched but it is the best I have got with my current understanding of science and intellectual knowledge and religious knowledge. I think it is also as logical as any human, either atheist or theist or deist, will get any time soon given our rate of progression in terms of technology and knowledge and intelligence.

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#91 2011-10-23 03:33:48

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Deism or Theism




This question requires some background

A Deist refers to someone who believes God triggered the beginning of the universe (possibly through the Big bang)and has not interfered in any event since (meaning no prayer, no ritual or anything like that is of any concern to him).

A theist is someone who believes n a "personal god", who interferes in human affairs, answers prayers, etc.


So which one are you? Which one makes more sense? Why?

Last edited by SgtPeppers (2011-10-24 20:25:52)

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