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  • Index
  • » Techology - Room 1
  • » Is clean energy viable/necessa by calibur
  •    Debate on viability, methodology of installation, and necessity of clean energy.

    1: Is clean energy viable?
    2: If so, how should it be implemented?
    3: If not, what does it need to become viable?
    4: Is it even necessary?

    Edit

#1 2017-04-14 14:04:48

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@Dasding23 

By the end of the day, I believe things would come to this:
Is the pollution caused by burning petroleum coke and brown coal worse than that caused by the production of solar panels?(Yes, it is a serious problem)
Is nuclear waste more terrifying than a hazardous yet energy-rich biofuel?
Beyond the differences of politics, beyond the inequality of future generations and the present ones, I believe these questions stand.

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#2 2014-07-10 13:37:36

          Taiwan (ROC)    Archduke
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@vradonam
Currently the most technologically advanced nation in the field of nuclear fusion is——China! party Maintaining a 6000C environment for 20secs, this is man's current greatest step to controlled nuclear fusion! high

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#3 2012-10-30 01:01:21

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@SgtPeppers 

I'm not saying it won't gather a lot of energy. But a step, even an entire walk, does not put that much energy into the earth. You'd have to implement such systems in the entirety of such massive areas for it to be of any worth, and even then it is simply not cost-effective. Putting solar panels over such areas would perform two purposes, but still might not be cost-effective.

Yes. That's what I said. But it does eliminate that problem.

What of Hydrogen?

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#4 2012-10-29 07:36:33

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

Yes, because residential areas cover massive swaths of land, whereas power plants are far too limited in size to be worth the effort

The only advantage of biomass is that it reduces another huge problem, namely the massive amounts of garbage we cannot properly dispose of.

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#5 2012-10-11 21:06:47

          Portugal    Vradonam
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@Dasding23 

Deserved an up vote my friend.

Only wanted to add: Let's really hope that the solutions for engineering problems on nuclear fusion are near.

I agree with you, it's our only choice. But I really hope too that in the near future we will be able to collect energy of the sun from space fotovolaic panels. the only problem is how to transport the energy collected, and a way to do it is already being thought! wink

cheers

Last edited by Vradonam (2012-10-29 23:29:08)

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#6 2012-10-10 07:04:08

          Germany    Dasding23
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




of course it is viable. Many of the technologies which are used as "new technologies" are relatively old and were used hundreds or even thousands of years ago.
Thermal solar power (for the production of electricity) is now mor than 100 years old and in  Spain there are the solar power plants Andasol I, II and III which are able to produce electricity for almost 24 hours a day even when the sun don't shines and they produce at nearly the same costs like a conventional power plant.

Also they have less costly side effects.
If you look at coal power plants for example it only seems to be cheaper but if you look deeper into the matter you will see that there are the side effects of global warming, destruction of nature, renaturation of coal mines etc. etc. so in the end, the side effects of such energy production are way more costly than so called clean energy.

Another example is nuclear energy.
This is the cheapest form to produce energy but not the cheapest form energy production in general. What i mean by that is, that you have high development costs (usually paid by you i.e. the taxpayers), high cost of storage for nuclear waste (usually paid by taxpayers) and the costs of nuclear accidents (usually paid by taxpayers).
The German state spent about 15 billion dollars for the development of their own type of a boiling water reactor and then they gave the technology for free to private companies. For the storage of the nuclear waste the german state also pays billions and billions for a final storage solution. The power companies have all the profit in between.

In the case of a severe accident, private companies just don't have the money on them to pay for the aftermath. As you could see in Japan TEPCO: though it was the 4th  largest single energy supplier in the world (!) would have gone bankrupt if the Japanese state wouldn't have paid billions of dollars.

I think it is not just that clean energy is necessary it is, that we have no other choice.

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#7 2012-10-09 00:44:05

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@Vradonam 

Indeed, hydrogen seems like a viable future option.
America is energy self-sufficient, as far as I know. It's just fuel which we import, even though we produce like a fourth of the world's oil. The damned president is suppressing oil production, and the other candidate is trying to make green energy pointless. Blargh.

I don't think the sidewalk or road thing is viable.

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#8 2012-10-08 13:54:57

          Portugal    Vradonam
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




1: Not yet, the power necessary to feed our transports isn't produced efficciently by any other fuel. Hidrogen seems to me a good alternative but i reeally don't know much about the fuel topics. What i do know is that my country asides from the fuels it is almost 100% self sustaining due mostly to dams and wind turbines. But this comes on a really high price, and not every country can do that.

2: There are many ways to implement more clean ways of sustainable energy, for me the incorporation of photovoltaic panels, wind turbines and solar panels to buildings. We can too incorporate systems to side walks that produce energy that comes from the movement of our feet, but when I saw this, I immediately thought that though this idea could be really dificult to implement due to its efficiency and low productivity, it could be applied to the roads. Imagine every road producing energy.

4: Yes it's necessary, the greenhouse effect is damaging the climat systems of the planet badly and that needs to be changed. And, besides that, we can't live long relying only on fossil fuels, because, they will run out some day.

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#9 2012-07-13 03:26:27

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@SgtPeppers 
                       
And yet, having solar panels or plants on the roofs of houses would make a difference, when on turbines or coal plants, it would not?

As I understand it, in biomass, you burn flammable trash in order to heat water.... and from there it's like every other nonrenewable power system.

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#10 2012-07-13 03:04:04

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

Non reflective because anything else is a hazard. You would have entire neighbourhoods turned into massive mirrors reflecting the sun, possibly blinding pilots or drivers, depending on where in the sky the sun is

Turbines are nowhere near big enough to make it worthwhile, not to mention half your panels are totally useless for half of the daylight.

As for the plants, you simply couldn't have enough to make a difference.

As for Biomass, I can't really comment on it, as I am not that familiar with the technology.

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#11 2012-07-12 20:02:14

          Portugal    MrGalinacio
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

Non-reflective panels, altough impossible to create, would reduce the ammount of reflected radiation, increasing the ammount of absorved radiation, therefore increasing the panel efficiency and the ammount of generated electricity

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#12 2012-07-12 06:04:14

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@SgtPeppers 

Sounds reasonable, but why non-reflective?
And, again, it's a matter of cost. Long-term it may be more efficient, but the cost of implementation would simply be way too much.

1- Aren't turbines huge?
2- I don't mean on the smokestack, I mean on the roof.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS4usTSb6xw8y0-YP37RWdxyuEismT4S1iwJ0zlOy0-UpeFU23s
Here, see? Roof, just like any normal building.

Biomass gets rid of much trash. If you remove and recycle the recyclable stuff first, then it solves almost all normal waste.

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#13 2012-07-12 05:53:10

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

What I have always thought is that we need a non reflective solar panel, then we can have it use on roofs to supply power to houses, reducing outside usage and lowering costs. As for your ideas

1. the panels need to have a large surface area to be worth the effort

2. The plants would boil from the heat, not to mention the fact they would map no discernible difference to CO2 levels.

I'm iffy on biomass, but if it can be used to transition from fossil fuels, it's worth some consideration.

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#14 2012-07-12 01:41:04

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@SgtPeppers 
                       
I remember an article I saw in the invention issue of time magazine of a leaf-like solar panel, and I believe it said that that was cheaply producible...

I find it odd, even backwards, that people don't combine forms of energy. Why not put solar panels on a wind turbine? Why not grow plants on the roof of coal power plants and oil refineries to reduce pollution?

Also, biomass energy plants... What do you think of them? They pollute, to prevent pollution. And create energy.

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#15 2012-07-12 00:34:33

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

That was what I was pointing out with oil costs, when they go up, energy costs go up and the other systems can become feasible. The technologies are already there, all we need is mass production of the components, which is exactly what China is trying to do right now.

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#16 2012-07-11 22:10:33

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@SgtPeppers 

Interesting. The way I see it, it is necessary at some point- but it is not yet viable. You said the establishment costs are high, but they're ridiculously high. They need to become a cheaper option if they're ever to become economically feasible, and, no matter how hard you try, you cannot force something that is economically unfeasible on any free country, no matter how much people might want it.

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#17 2012-07-11 17:59:42

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is clean energy viable/necessa




@calibur 

It is not only viable, it is an absolute necessity. The short term establishment costs might be high, but by ensuring a constant supply of renewable energy, we can gradually establish a healthier and more productive society which isn't totally reliant supplies of oil that pass through the most dangerous region in the world. Fortunately, high gas prices make these systems much more viable financially and the place that builds them will be the next energy powerhouse.

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#18 2012-07-11 06:59:33

          United States    calibur
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Is clean energy viable/necessa




1: Is clean energy viable?
2: If so, how should it be implemented?
3: If not, what does it need to become viable?
4: Is it even necessary?

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