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  • » Religion - Room 1
  • » Is religion hindering us? by spazzpatch
  •    If religion is, in a nutshell, a way for some people to keep hope alive, is it not also hi

    To start, I'm new and english was not my first language, so forgive any simple errors.

    Being atheist, i try to be open minded about religion. i have read the bible, read translations of any possible thing that anyone could consider a way of life. I ask you, is having the image of a man in the sky subtly changing things if we pray and take proactive steps really so healthy to our growth, or to our very existence? It humbles us so much, we fight anyone who thinks different. at the end of the day, your goal is no longer to live a successful life, but to be a deity's soldier, to be one close to a higher being. for a second, imagine the world without the big what if question. some people wouldnt be as brave. some wars never fought. some inspirations, gone. But our pride, our knowledge of what we can do now that we dont have the safety net thought of god being able to ensure a beautiful after life, what do we have? we have, perhaps, a better society.

    Edit

#1 2012-07-14 04:38:32

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




@maps12 

If someone wants to call energy god, then that is a god that I believe in. The problem is that if you only label an object god, I don't see what the purpose of the label is, as it removes all meaning from the word god as a separate idea.

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#2 2012-07-14 03:43:19

          United States    maps12
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




@SgtPeppers 

It is very logical.  Praying brings peace to the one who is praying.  And what if God is actually energy.

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#3 2012-07-13 18:39:02

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




@MrBeer 

The problem with belief jun god is not so much the actual belief (though I have problems with that). It is the tacit consent of people to the premise that belief without good reasons, either evidentiary or logical, is somehow acceptable. It is not just god, it is astrology, homeopathy, faith healing, meditation, prayer, alchemy, and the new age faiths which try to exploit quantum theory to allow for mysticism. These are all societal weeds that grow out of the same seed. The seed of accepting faith as a virtue.

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#4 2012-07-13 04:57:39

          Germany    MrBeer
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




@SgtPeppers 

I know the full quote, but still, I can draw no negative conclusions for the belief in god, only for religion as an institution.The belief in god does not necessarily mean the estalishing of rules and moral sanctioning like religion does, for example.

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#5 2012-07-13 03:16:04

          Canada    SgtPeppers
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




@MrBeer 

You misquoted Karl Marx. When he referred to religion as the opium of the people, he said it with a much broader idea in mind. The full quote (one of my favourites) is

 

 The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
Criticism has plucked the imaginary flowers on the chain not in order that man shall continue to bear that chain without fantasy or consolation, but so that he shall throw off the chain and pluck the living flower. 

 

In other words, both religious institutions and belief in god have an overtly negative effect. They encourage people to be satisfied rather than long for better, they increase apathy and apathy is the death of free society.

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#6 2012-07-13 02:49:14

          Brazil    caramba2654
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




In the modern society, yes.

Religion is and always has been a way to control a society by using people beliefs against themselves. Take note that the Middle Ages was governed by the Catholic Church, mostly because people were too blind to know if everything they heard was true (the Church didn't allow the Bible to be translated and distributed publicly).
Nowadays, with the communication revolution and the sharing of facts, people can question religion, because the idea behind it doesn't sound right to them. They want proof that it's real.
Another topic is the hypocrisies of religion. Specially the Catholic one. They say "Greed and stealing is bad and will get you to hell", but since it was created the Church is know by its gold-adorned objects,  the amount of lands it had, corrupt priests, etc...
It's okay to have a religion and such. What's not okay is to dedicate your whole life to it or let someone else control it. Letting it happen in today's society will only hinder progress, because it may say to you "You're not allowed to research on medicine" or you may say to yourself "I wish I could save to buy the car I always wanted, but God said that storing money will get me to Hell, so I'll give it to the Church instead".
Basically, if the nowadays religion was like the one that is described in a Holy Book, the Church would give all of its gold to solve the problems on Africa.

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#7 2012-07-12 16:57:13

          Germany    MrBeer
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




The Notion of religion was a necessity for most societys in the history of mankind to survive and invoke a certain order and regulation.

However, in modern society it is outdated, unnecessary and an obstacle for true progress.

So, if you ask me, "Is Religion hindering us?" I´d have to say, clearly, YES!

If you ask, "is the belief in God hindering us?" I would clearly say, NO.

The belief in god is not contrary to science, religion however always draws people that twist it in a way so it becomes contrary to it.

Karl Marx Said that Religion is the Opium of the people, which is true.

It is an easy tool for anyone to establish a rule over the weakminded and uneducated.This also makes it obsolete in modern society, because ideally, in such a society there would be no uneducated people.That´s something we have not quite reached yet, but in most of the "civilised" countrys the educated outweigh the uneducated enough to make religion unnecessary.

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#8 2012-07-12 14:25:28

          Indonesia    Hephaestus
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




First off, I am an atheist, and I say this because my opinion might sound a bit like a theist's.

So your question is "If religion didn't exist, would we have a better society?" My answer is no. In fact, I believe that if we never had a God, or gods to believe in we probably would have died out. Religion has actually been keeping humanity alive and well. The concept that if you do good, you will be rewarded and if you commit a sin you would be punished was always hardwired into us humans, even without religion, even without the laws we have now. Back then, even the first homo-sapiens would punish their kids if they hit their parents, or steal, right?

I think someone back then realized that something more was needed in order to keep the People in line, to keep the People peaceful. And someone long, long ago, knew that to be rewarded with the best rewards for being good, and to be punished with the worst punishments for being bad, was perfect to keep the People civilized. But the best rewards and the worst punishments doesn't just appear out of nowhere; so to make religion work, it had to be an afterlife: you can't prove it, but you can't disprove it.

And that ancient concept has worked to keep the barbaric and primitive people back then survive; if there was no religion, history would've been much bloodier, because people would not be afraid to commit what would be called "crimes" today.

And in my opinion, we still need this illusion, today. If religion would just vanish, even now, there would be less peace in the world. For some people the only reason they haven't committed suicide yet is because they're afraid of hell, for example.

So I think religion is necessary, but we will let it go eventually, when humanity has become more mature, more civilized, but now, since not all of us can still have morality without religion, in my opinion, for the sake of some people, we still need it.

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#9 2012-07-12 07:38:34

          United States    calibur
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Re: Is religion hindering us?




Perhaps. It's my personal belief that, in any situation, religion was inevitable in humans before they had the logic of scientific explanations.
Try to find evidence of any super-ancient tribe that did not have some from of religion.
Perhaps a better question would be, was religion not just inevitable, but necessary back then?

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#10 2012-07-12 07:32:58

          United States    spazzpatch
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Is religion hindering us?




To start, I'm new and english was not my first language, so forgive any simple errors.

Being atheist, i try to be open minded about religion. i have read the bible, read translations of any possible thing that anyone could consider a way of life. I ask you, is having the image of a man in the sky subtly changing things if we pray and take proactive steps really so healthy to our growth, or to our very existence? It humbles us so much, we fight anyone who thinks different. at the end of the day, your goal is no longer to live a successful life, but to be a deity's soldier, to be one close to a higher being. for a second, imagine the world without the big what if question. some people wouldnt be as brave. some wars never fought. some inspirations, gone. But our pride, our knowledge of what we can do now that we dont have the safety net thought of god being able to ensure a beautiful after life, what do we have? we have, perhaps, a better society.

Offline

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